When both France and Vichy France have been liberated by the allies, can there be an option for the allied player to transfer control of the Vichy portion from the UK to France? However France broke with the United Kingdom after the destruction of the French Fleet at Mers-el-Kebir. Unsurprisingly, Vichy severed diplomatic relations on 8 July. That highlighted Syria as a threat to British interests in the Middle East. The period of resistance against the occupation and Franco-French struggle for control of the colonies between the Vichy regime and the Free French, who continued the fight on the Allies' side after the Appeal of 18 June by General Charles de Gaulle, recognized by the United Kingdom as France's government-in-exile. ... loss of the remaining French army without a noticeable fight, the occupation of all France, economic collapse, put … by Sid Guttridge » 11 May 2012, 13:07, Post The Vichy France soldiers had completely defeated the Allies who misjudged their morale and combat abilities. Explore the dramatic and unexpected defeat of the French forces in WW2.  Darlan was assassinated on 24 December 1942 and so Washington turned again towards Giraud, who was made High Commissioner of French North and West Africa. Democratic rule was restored in French Algeria, and the Communists and Jews liberated from the concentration camps.. False rumours abounded that France had made major concessions regarding colonies and German control of French ports and the French fleet. by murx » 11 May 2012, 10:46, Post Various terms were offered to the French squadron, but all were rejected. The conflict was settled with Japanese mediation on 9 May 1941, with French Indochina losing territory to Thailand. Update: and i mean french vs french (vichy) (Free) Answer Save. After the fall of France in 1940, French Somaliland declared loyalty to the Vichy France. Vichy France or Vichy Regime hadn´t a real war against the allies. Even after the battles were fought, however, Vichy France did not join the war, and the Vichy French troops engaged there were usually repatriated by the Allies after operations were over. Hence much of the indecision of the French leaders. Greater cooperation between the … Germany made Vichy France have its French armies and navies to fight the allies in French colonies. Because they were duty-bound as members of the French armed forces to obey the orders of the legal Government of France. I depend on what you call “the French”. While tightly controlled by the Nazi regime, Vichy France was permitted the means to defend its African colonies against foreign invasion. The branch was soon split into two camps: those who escaped from France and joined the Free French Forces (Forces Françaises Libres) and those who stayed and flew for the French Armistice Air Force on behalf of the Vichy government. The Vichy were not, and did fight us when we landed in North Africa earlier in the war. The Allied invasion French North Africa, Morocco, Algeria, and Tunisia, started on 8 November 1942 with landings in Morocco and Algeria. ammianus. Because he had little choice. ", This page was last edited on 7 December 2020, at 10:32. 10 years ago. In fact many governments had full relations with Vichy for much of the war. To what extent did the Western Allies pursue an essentially ‘Italy & Vichy France First’ policy from mid 1940-43? The Battle of France, in which the German victory led to the fall of the Third Republic in May and June 1940. This was known as the Syria-Lebanon Campaign or Operation Exporter. By November 27th, the Germans had reached the naval base of Toulon. The Americans also hoped to encourage Vichy to resist German war demands, such as for the fleet, air bases in French-mandated Syria or to move war supplies through French territories in North Africa. Her … In west Africa, in the Middle East, on Madagascar, and finally during the Torch landings, why did these Vichy French forces fight the allies and in some cases their own countrymen? by The_Enigma » 08 May 2012, 09:00, Post ... On a role of 1-2 the Vichy forces will fight the Allied landing. Firstly many thanks for the well considered and intelligent responses to my first thread-starter on this Forum about "which German advanced weapon had the … It was reckoned that they would land on the Mediterranean coast, and that the Vichy Government would not oppose them. Vice-Admiral Somerville, with Force H under his command, was instructed to deal with the large squadron in port at Mers El Kébir harbor near Oran in July 1940. From 5 May to 6 November 1942, another major operation by British forces against Vichy French territory was launched, the Battle of Madagascar. Bombing in World War 2 claimed between 50,000 and 60,000 French civilian lives. France was divided into two zones: one under German military occupation and one left to the French in full sovereignty, at least nominally. Firstly many thanks for the well considered and intelligent responses to my first thread-starter on this Forum about "which German advanced weapon had the best chance to be a 'game-changer'". by Sid Guttridge » 09 May 2012, 12:32, Post As a result, 12 air force and 11 navy pilots lost their lives in the final four days of combat between (Vichy) France and the Allies during World War II. The armistice after Germany defeated France in June 1940, included numerous provisions, all largely guaranteed by the German policy of keeping 2 million French prisoners of war in Germany, effectively as hostages. Now we have no Cash, no Hope and no Jobs.... To answer the original question from another perspective... because the Germans literally had a gun at the head of the French in Europe. Even De gaulle was sentenced to death by the Vichy Government. After very difficult negotiations, Giraud agreed to suppress the racist laws, and to liberate Vichy prisoners of the South Algerian concentration camps. ... tend to lay out the steps as being France + her Eastern European allies > USSR (And then the US in the second book. Post by michael mills » 19 May 2012, 02:43 When the Germans first moved into the Unoccupied Zone on 11 November 1942, the order to deploy into divisional redoubts was given by, I think, the deputy chief of staff, and movements began. The Vichy government, which was never recognized by the Allies, became a German tool in the hands of such men as Pierre Laval and Jean François Darlan, although German expectations were never completely satisfied. As a result, Madagascar was invaded by British and Commonwealth forces. At that point, the Vichy regime became entirely a puppet of the German occupiers. – Tea Drinker Jan 14 '14 at 15:57. American President Franklin Delano Roosevelt suspected the operation in North Africa would rule out an invasion of Europe in 1943 but agreed to support British Prime Minister Winston Churchill. Steve. In November 1942, the Allies landed in French North Africa (Operation Torch). Founded in 1999. Christofferson, Thomas R., and Michael S. Christofferson: Rossi, Mario: "United States Military Authorities and Free France, 1942-1944. Edit Vichy France existed during the second world war as a Nazi puppet state, half of its territory (North West) was occupied by German's army while the rest of it was considered "free". The Free French instead set their sights on French Equatorial Africa, which, with the exception of French Gabon, peacefully changed sides. 8 years ago. Last edited: Dec 6, 2020. The Soviets discover that centrally planned economics … Hitler did not trust Vichy France and especially Petain. By 25 September, the battle was over, the plan was unsuccessful, and Dakar remained under Vichy French control. By that time, the Italians had been defeated and the French colony had since then isolated by a British blockade. 0 0. Free French and the Allied forces recaptured the colony's capital of Djibouti at the end of 1942. in world war 2 did the vichy french ever fight the free french? Vichy France gets it’s small income of 9 IPC’s to produce units in Southern France, while a Free French government is set up in London, using the remaining 4 IPC’s of French territory. The result was shock and resentment towards Britain within the French Navy, and by the general French public. However, alarmed by the growing threat of invasion, Vichy dispatched a fighter group from Algeria. In time, the majority of the colonies tended to switch to the Allied side peacefully in response to persuasion and to changing events. In July 1941, the Soviet Union broke off diplomatic relations with Vichy France. Re: Why did Vichy France fight the allies? This led it into overt conflict with the allies and understated tension with Germany. I'm currently playing as italy and when vichy france was created they stayed neutral for some reason I want to invade them but germany says they will protect vichy france's independence Would they declare war on me If I did the same to vichy france? This will probably lead up to a painful steamrolling of France by Germany. There was also Dakar which was an emphatic victory for Vichy France fighting hard against the Allies. Less than two weeks after the armistice, Britain had fired upon forces of its former ally. Lv 4. Although Vichy France was nominally in control of all of France–apart from Alsace Lorraine–in practice the Germans controlled over half of the country, including the northern and western coasts, the industrial northeast, and the Paris region. The existence of Vichy France was one reason why the Germans did not invade Spain in an effort to capture Gibraltar. The colony remained such during the rest of the East African Campaign, but stayed out of that conflict. Following the Defeat of France in 1940, the French military chose two ways to fight on - One being escape to England and support the allies or Two supporting the newly formed Vichy French Government. Sid... do you have more details on the French plans and the intel item. The Americans ended relations when Germany occupied all of France in late 1942. This is an apolitical forum for discussions on the Axis nations and related topics hosted by the Axis History Factbook in cooperation with Christian Ankerstjerne’s Panzerworld and Christoph Awender's WW2 day by day. Consequently, Force H opened fire on the French ships, killing 1,297 French military personnel, including nearly 1,000 French sailors when the Bretagne blew up. It ended in a much-publicized handshake between the two, but in fact their discussions had been entirely general and no decisions had been made. by phylo_roadking » 08 May 2012, 15:02, Post This somewhat disappointed De'Gaulle, who had expected more to defect to his side. Admiral Jean de Laborde was in command of the French warships based there. The French State, popularly known as Vichy France, as led by Marshal Philippe Pétain after the Fall of France in 1940 before Nazi Germany, was quickly recognized by the Allies, as well as by the Soviet Union, until 30 June 1941 and Operation Barbarossa. The United States granted Vichy full diplomatic recognition, sending Admiral William D. Leahy to France as ambassador. Otherwise there were a lot of Alsatians … Had Khalkin Gol happened during Barbarossa I'm pretty sure it would have escalated into a full blown conflict. Currently, the division between Vichy France and Free France is handled by creating a civil war in France and Germany puppeting the fascist side. I'd heard fragments about the plans, including a French general who attempted to execute a occupation of Bourdeux in November 1942. The Syrian capital, Damascus, was captured on 17 June and the five-week campaign ended with the fall of Beirut and the Armistice of Saint Jean d'Acre on 14 July 1941. Vichy aircraft had already bombed Gibraltar on 18 July in retaliation for the attack at Mers-el-Kébir. The invasion, known as Operation Torch, was launched after the Soviet Union had pressed the United States and Britain to start operations in Europe, and open a second front to help reduce the pressure of German forces on the Russian troops. Sid... thanks. Favorite Answer. In March 1940, the Soviet Ambassador to France, Yakov Surits, had been declared persona non grata in his host country. Even so, the Free France headquarters in London was riven with internal divisions and jealousies. 1. It is questionable that he ordered that many French resistance leaders who had helped Eisenhower's troops be arrested, without any protest by Roosevelt's representative, Robert Murphy. Jewish property was "aryanized" (i.e. An entity called "Free France" which included forces led by Charles DeGaulle, was an ally. Free France and its Free French Forces (French: France Libre et les Forces françaises libres) was the government-in-exile led by Charles de Gaulle during the Second World War, and its military forces, that continued to fight against the Axis powers as an Allied nation, following the Fall of France.Set up in London in June 1940, it organised and supported the Resistance in Occupied France, and established … In case some bad guys take a member of your family hostage and the SWAT team "invades" your home the save and liberate the member of your family so the situation was similar during the invasion of Normandy when France could not do much about the Germans occupying it's territory so the allied forces "invaded " France" and gradually liberated it from the oppression of the German forces! Even though he was now in the Allied camp, Darlan maintained the repressive Vichy system in North Africa, including concentration camps in southern Algeria and racist laws. It was an independent ally of Nazi Germany however that was a small part and the majority of the French fought the Nazis throughout their occupation of France . At least Vichy France bombed Gibraltar in retaliation and Operation Torch was mainly carried out by US Forces in order not to further provoke Vichy troops into anti Allied resistance. Numerous Jewish children were prohibited from going to school, something which not even Vichy had implemented in metropolitan France. 2 Answers. From the French perspective, they were fighting a civil war? Henri Giraud and Charles de Gaulle then became co-presidents of the Comité français de la Libération nationale, which unified the Free French Forces and territories controlled by them and had been founded at the end of 1943. Whereas the majors didn't hand their best tech and equipment over to their allies, they did often sell or give them the next-best things, be it Shermans for UK or StuGs for Finland. They turned to Henri Giraud shortly before the landing on 8 November 1942. Wasn't it the attack on the French fleet anchored in Mers El Khebir (Operation Catapult) , taking the life of 1250+ French sailors, which turned French citizens into "Anti-British" ? After the defeat of France, Marshal Henri-Philippe Pétain was forced to sign the armistice with Germany on 22 June 1940. Historically, neither side had much of an idea how … Post they fought against the allied landings in north africa in 1942 (operation torch) they caused about 500 american casualties before the vichy french commanders in the area … The Vichy regime, proclaimed by Marshall Pétain after the Fall of France in 1940 before Nazi Germany, was quickly recognized by the Allies, including the USSR until 30 June 1941 and Operation Barbarossa.However, Vichy France broke with the United Kingdom after the destruction of the French Fleet at Mers-el-Kebir. While many of the French government officials may have been willing to sacrifice the remaining safety of their fellow French in Europe, which often included their families, they were not willing to do so without a strong prospect of victory. Consequently, on 8 June, British and Commonwealth forces invaded Syria and Lebanon. The allies were surprised by the Vichy garrison to defense of the colony, having expected them to change side without opposition. France was divided into two zones: one under German military occupation and one left to … While tightly controlled by the Nazi regime, Vichy France was permitted the means to defend its African colonies against foreign invasion. To what extent did the Western Allies pursue an essentially ‘Italy & Vichy France First’ policy from mid 1940-43? The … 888 Words 4 Pages The French Resistance (La Résistance française) was a collaboration of individual movements against the German occupation of France and the Vichy regime that complied with the Nazis during World War II. Canada maintained diplomatic relations until the occupation of Southern France (Case Anton) by Germany and Italy in November 1942.. This seemingly subservient behavior convinced the regime of Major-General Plaek Pibulsonggram, the Prime Minister of the Kingdom of Thailand, that Vichy France would not seriously resist a confrontation with Thailand. General Henri Giraud had switched from Vichy to the Allies and Roosevelt found him a preferable alternative to de Gaulle. Afterwards, the Soviet Chargé d’Affaires in Vichy, Alexander Bogomolov, maintained contacts with the Vichy Regime. This was not enough security for Winston Churchill, who feared that the French fleet could wind up in German hands and be used against British ships, which were vital to maintaining worldwide shipping and communications. The Vichy French air force was relatively strong at the start of the campaign. Finally, after François Darlan's turn towards the Free Forces, they played him against de Gaulle. Australia maintained, until the end of the war, full diplomatic relations with the Vichy Regime and entered also into full diplomatic relations with the Free French. It was there to help control the French population and add minor military support to the Germans . The Vichy French sided with the Nazis the enemies who took over their country, and against the allies (France's friends) because.....they weren't France. They are some intresting thoughts. The Government of Vichy France was the collaborationist ruling regime or government in Nazi-occupied France during the Second World War.Of contested legitimacy, it was headquartered in the town of Vichy in occupied France, but it initially took shape in Paris under Maréchal Philippe Petain as the successor to the French Third Republic in June 1940. This is a understudied subject & anything you might make avaialble for sources and facts would be most welcome. After Vichy France was created, did the French soldiers fight against the Allies? This occurred through a series of consultations between Giraud and de Gaulle. German and Italian Air Force aircraft, staging through the French possession of Syria, intervened in the fighting in small numbers. Vichy France was established during WW2 by the German occupational army it was a puppet government set up and controlled by the Nazis during WW2. Board index The Allies & the Neutral States France 1919-1945; Vichy French soldiers at Normandy. It raised the prospect of Frenchmen shooting at Frenchmen and fears of a civil war. yes. With the Vichy leaders gone from French territory, on 23 October 1944, the U.S., Britain and the Soviet Union formally recognized the Provisional Government of the French Republic (GPRF), headed by de Gaulle, as the legitimate government of France. ↳ Life in the Third Reich & Weimar Republic, ↳ Kriegsmarine surface ships and Kriegsmarine in general, ↳ Luftwaffe air units and Luftwaffe in general, ↳ German Strategy & General German Military Discussion, ↳ NSDAP, other party organizations & Government, ↳ The Ron Klages Panzer & other vehicles Section, ↳ Panzer & other vehicles - Photo threads, ↳ Axis Documents, Feldpost numbers, Postcards & Other Paper Items, ↳ The United Kingdom & its Empire and Commonwealth 1919-45, ↳ The Allies and the Neutral States in general, ↳ German Colonies and Overseas Expeditions, ↳ The end of the Ottoman Empire 1908-1923, ↳ Translation help: Breaking the Sound Barrier.  Vichy France never joined the Axis alliance, however. Roosevelt favored trying to get Vichy France into the allied camp, he did not trust The Free French. 0. When France declared war on Germany on September 3, 1939, following the German invasion of Poland, the French military spent eight months watching and … Both the Free French and Vichy French pretended to be “the French” at this time. It was an authoritarian regime. However France broke with the United Kingdom after the destruction of the French Fleet at Mers-el-Kebir. Post by michael mills » 19 May 2012, 02:43 When the Germans first moved into the Unoccupied Zone on 11 November 1942, the order to deploy into divisional redoubts was given by, I think, the deputy chief of staff, and movements began. As far as the French are concerned yes part of the Nation was pro-Germany, Vichy France (French: Régime de Vichy) is the common name of the French State (État français) headed by Marshal Philippe Pétain during World War II. Roosevelt and Churchill accepted Darlan, rather than de Gaulle, as the French leader in North Africa. by The_Enigma » 07 May 2012, 13:36, Post In June 1940, the Fall of France obviously made the French hold on Indochina tenuous. The allies tried to keep Pétain away from the germans. Or sources? At some beaches, the Vichy French refused to fight the Allies and joined them. Lv 4. Considering how explosive anti-Nazi sentiment was after their liberation (rape and humiliation of Nazi sympathizers), it blows my mind how the puppet government could find troops to essentially fight FOR their historical rivals that had just destroyed their country. Discussions on all aspects of France during the Inter-War era and Second World War. Admiral François Darlan had landed in Algiers the day before Operation Torch. A Vichy territory, conquered by the Allies is freed for the Free France, as if it was taken from France previously. In the early stages of East African Campaign in 1940, constant border skirmishes occurred between the forces in French Somaliland and the forces in Italian East Africa. The Bombing of France 1939 - 1945. The Pétain government in Vichy controlled the rest until November 1942, when Germany took it all over. Of course from an allied point of view they were considered as freedom fighters and they were welcomed under their own colours , as part of Monty's army in North Africa or fighting with the Americans (1st Free French armored Division in Alsace for instance) . by Sid Guttridge » 08 May 2012, 12:54, Post by Carl Schwamberger » 09 May 2012, 14:01, Post – Tea Drinker Jan 14 '14 at 15:52. While the American commanders favored landing in occupied Europe as soon as possible (Operation Sledgehammer), the British commanders believed that such a move would end in disaster. Quote; Link to post Share on other … I know my second world war history very well but the other day while reading about vichy frances role i became curios if the free french forces lead by charles de gaul ever fought the vichy french forces lead by phillipe Petain. Vichy France was established during WW2 by the German occupational army it was a puppet government set up and controlled by the Nazis during WW2. The failure at Dakar hurt De'Gaulles standing with the British. The United States granted Vichy full diplomatic recognition, sending Admiral William D. Leahy to France as American ambassador. 1 decade ago. On 23 September 1940, the British launched the Battle of Dakar, also known as Operation Menace, part of the West Africa Campaign. As the US ambassador Admirial Leahey was told 'If you come with three divisions we will fight you, if you come with twenty we will welcome you'. BELFAST said: You would need to the Soviets to be much stronger economically. Vichy France, the German client state established in June 1940 under in the non-occupied Zone libre, officially neutral and independent until invaded by the Axis in November 1942 Marshal Philippe Pétain, Vichy's main leader The Cremieux decree, which granted French citizenship to Jews in Algeria and which had been repealed by Vichy, was immediately restored by General de Gaulle. The soldiers themselves were French, but were wearing the nazi insignia, and fought alongside the Germans in every theatre of war. More info would be fun. I understand why the Vichy government in Metropolitan France opposed the Allies (at least publicly) but why did French colonies like Madagascar fight back? The plan called for installing Free French forces under General Charles de Gaulle in Dakar. ... April, and May 1940. 2 0. Paxtion 'Vichy France' & Jackson 'The Dark Years' describe it as poplar as long as the interests of the individual matched the government policy. 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